Dr. Ahmet Aksoy is an assistant professor in the Department of Computer Science and Cybersecurity at the University of Central Missouri. As the Director of the cutting-edge NetML (Network Machine Learning) Lab, Dr. Aksoy leads groundbreaking research in the field of network traffic fingerprinting. His research focuses on incident classification, software, and device identification through the innovative application of machine learning algorithms.
Summary of the episode
In this episode of the Cybersecurity Guide Podcast, host Steve Bowcut interviews Dr. Ahmet Aksoy, an assistant professor at the University of Central Missouri (UCM), about cybersecurity education opportunities at UCM. Dr. Aksoy discusses his journey into cybersecurity and machine learning, as well as his research focus on network traffic fingerprinting and incident classification.
He explains how machine learning can be used for automated anomaly detection and behavioral analysis in cybersecurity. Dr. Aksoy also provides advice for students interested in pursuing a career in cybersecurity, emphasizing the importance of programming skills, networking fundamentals, and cybersecurity certifications. He highlights promising career paths in cybersecurity, such as incident responder, penetration tester, security consultant, and security architect.
Dr. Aksoy also discusses the ethical considerations in cybersecurity education and the future of his research, which includes host profiling and user fingerprinting.
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Read a full transcript of the episode
Steve Bowcut:
Thank you for joining us today for the Cybersecurity Guide Podcast. My name is Steve Bowcut. I am a writer and an editor for Cybersecurity Guide and the podcast’s host. We appreciate your listening.
Today, our guest is Dr. Ahmet Aksoy. Dr. Aksoy is an assistant professor at the University of Central Missouri. Our topic for today is Cybersecurity Education Opportunities at UCM. Before I bring Ahmet in, let me tell you a little bit about him. Dr. Ahmet Aksoy is an esteemed assistant professor at the University of Central Missouri where he holds a position in the Department of Computer Science and Cybersecurity. As the director of the cutting edge Network Machine Learning or NetML lab. Dr. Aksoy leads groundbreaking research in the field of network traffic fingerprinting. His expertise lies in incident classification software and device identification through the innovative application of machine learning algorithms. Beyond his research contributions Dr. Aksoy is a dedicated educator imparting knowledge and skills in cybersecurity through engaging and insightful courses. With a passion for advancing the field is at the forefront of shaping the next generation of cybersecurity professionals and contributing to the ever-evolving landscape of computer science and network security. With that, welcome Ahmet. Thank you for joining me today.
Ahmet Aksoy:
Thank you Steven for inviting me. It’s good to be here.
Steve Bowcut:
This is going to be fun and interesting, I can tell already. And I really appreciate your time and I’m sure that our audience is going to appreciate it as well. So let’s start off getting to know you a little better. So tell us how you got to where you’re at, at least as that relates to cybersecurity and machine learning. What was that journey like for you?
Ahmet Aksoy:
So my father is a professor of machine learning, so he completed his PhD at the Cardiff University in the UK. So I’ve always been exposed to machine learning concepts, his research and his discussions with his colleagues and his friends. So that was probably the first time I started developing interest into machine learning. And then after I graduated my bachelor degree, I went to the UK actually to the same university that he did his PhD in and completed my internship and I worked on a project on developing a machine learning algorithm completely from scratch by myself. And that also got me a little bit more interested in how these algorithms work and how they perform this, as-called learning part of it, which was really interesting.
And after that, I started looking into some PhD opportunities here in the US and I came across my professor who was a professor at the time at the University of Nevada Reno, from which I got my PhD degree. And he was working on performing automated fingerprinting of hosts of devices and software, which got me really interested. It was a combination of both networking and machine learning at the same time. So I had already been exposed to the machine learning part by then and I was quite interested in the networking part as well. So it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for me and I took it and I’m glad that I did.
Steve Bowcut:
Okay, excellent. And so let’s maybe delve into a little bit about your research focus. So what kind of research projects have you been involved with in this field?
Ahmet Aksoy:
So during my PhD, I worked on performing automated fingerprinting of operating systems and also IoT devices. So using machine learning and search optimization techniques like genetic algorithms, which given a huge search space, allows us to find a potential as optimal as possible solution in acceptable amount of time. So we use those approaches together in order to automate operating system fingerprinting. Meaning just by looking at the packets of different hosts, we could extract its fingerprint from the software so that next time we see a packet on the network we can tell which specific operating system it’s coming from and also which specific IoT device it’s coming from. So at the time I was not very much involved with security, but this definitely has a very important impact from the security perspective because if you know whether a particular operating system is vulnerable or if you know whether an IoT device is vulnerable.
So using such automated techniques without having to knock on everyone’s door at the institution, at the company, at the university, you can simply just perform this automated fingerprinting and then collect all their data while respecting the privacy and all of that and be able to see whether such vulnerable devices exist in the network. And if they do, you may just kindly let them know, “Well, do you mind updating your software because you’re creating a vulnerability in network or if maybe possible to completely eliminate it.” Because in 2014 there was an attack in one of the stores which was using a very outdated software in their POS machines, the ones that we swipe our credit cards at. So the guy was sitting right outside the store sniffing all those traffic and he was able to capture a lot of 100s if not 1000s of credit card information.
So I started with operating system and IoT fingerprinting during my PhD. And then after I graduated and started working as a professor at UCM, I wanted to dive a little bit more into incident classification. So I’m like, “Okay, I can tell OS is apart. I can tell IoT devices apart. But can I tell incidents or attacks apart or malicious hosts apart?” So I started working on that. I’ve conducted some research in where we were able to detect whether a particular host is malicious or not and specifically on attacks like fast flux, which is a DNS protocol attack or denial of service attacks. And also Nmap, a scanning tool detection, whether someone’s using such tool within a network. Because attackers sometimes used tools like that in order to explore vulnerable devices.
And once they find a target that they know they can easily attack, then they simply just put all their effort into that device and once they can get into the network through that device, then they further investigate or explore the network and see if they can, just like a worm would, if they can jump through different hosts and attack multiple hosts. And finally we worked on DNS botnet detection. And I’m also currently working on some other research projects with my students on detecting different types of incidents as well.
Steve Bowcut:
Interesting. So it just raises a question, actually a couple of questions in my mind. So how common is it, and maybe you’re not in a position to speak as an authority here, but is it common that universities and large organizations use this kind of asset evaluation to determine the vulnerability of all of the devices on their network? Or is that something that we just still need to convince people to do? Is it being done regularly?
Ahmet Aksoy:
Within rules and regulations, yes. So because otherwise the consequences of such attacks could be causing a lot more damage than it would if they hadn’t basically investigated the situation. So there are teams, IT department generally working in these institutions. But the thing that we mainly focused on in my research was whether we could perform such detection without delving into the payload of the data. Because the payload is where user information, privacy concerning situations arise. The header information of the packets, which is like the source IP, the destination IP, the TTL value and stuff like that are generally technical details, which do not necessarily correspond to private information. But as long as people respect those little details, there are tools available that technicians use in order to make sure that they have everything under control from the security perspective.
Steve Bowcut:
Okay, excellent. And that kind of answered the second part of my question. Because in my mind I was thinking, okay, so is this the same kinds of techniques that threat actors are using to discover vulnerabilities that they can exploit? But obviously they’re more of a crude attempt, because they would prefer to find the personal information or the sensitive information as opposed to your approach where you’re trying to protect that information or isolate that information if I understand that. Okay, excellent. Thank you, I appreciate that. All right, so as you followed your father’s footsteps and had some guidance from a mentor at University Nevada Reno, what would students today, what kind of skills, essential skills and knowledge areas do they need to have if they wanted to follow your footsteps?
Ahmet Aksoy:
Very good question. So pursuing a career in cybersecurity requires a combination of technical skills and also, well, technical skills along with knowledge. So one of the things that I personally would definitely recommend is to learn programming and scripting languages. I know sometimes people go, “Well, I’m not going to become a developer, I’m not going to be back end developer or something like that. I’m just going to be a cybersecurity analyst or something, yes, definitely.” But it’s going to be really helpful if you understand how these attacks work. Like how they utilize these protocols and how they make their way through into your network and so on. Or what kind of specific components of the protocol or the packet content they manipulate in order to trick the system in maybe, injecting data into the network or maybe leaking data out of the network.
So to better understand all of that, it’s going to be very helpful for people, those who are interested in cybersecurity to be familiar with some programming languages such as, I mean Python is one of the very important ones, Java is still one of the important ones. And I would also definitely recommend scripting languages such as Bash, Shell or PowerShell in Windows because these are going to be very helpful for automating certain tasks and they’re going to be really, really handy in terms of reducing the amount of time you would’ve otherwise taken in to complete the same task. Because as you know today, time is money.
And also, I definitely would recommend networking or being familiar with some networking fundamentals, understanding networking protocols and how these protocols work, what kind of fields they have and how we utilize those fields. Because there are a lot of information in these protocols that must be there in order for the entire internet to work. But there are also some optional fields which can be taken advantage of. So attackers typically use those optional fields in order to, as I said, maybe inject some data into the network or maybe leak some data out of the network. So if you’re not careful and if you don’t know where to look for that, then you may be tricked into accepting traffic that you shouldn’t or tricked into letting traffic go outside of your network that you shouldn’t have in the first place. So networking protocols, networking architectures I believe would be very much helpful.
Again, while all the devices that we’re using today are running some kind of an operating system. So that’s why being proficient in operating systems like Windows and Linux operating system would be very useful because once you’re familiar with Linux, you’re going to be familiar with any Unix-based operating system like Max, Solaris and all of that. And understanding the security features of these operating systems will also give you the ability to know what to look for in terms of whether the necessary security measures have been implemented in that operating system or whether certain features had been disabled, making the system more vulnerable, and if so, how we can bring it all back, turn on all those features, all those security measures. So being familiar with that would also be very beneficial in my opinion. And definitely cybersecurity fundamentals. Understanding or developing a strong foundation in cybersecurity concepts is also going to be really helpful for you to be able to put all of this together and so that it makes sense to you.
Things such as encryption, well, I’m not saying everyone needs to know every little detail of these encryption algorithms, but having a bit of an understanding of how encryption works, how authentication works, making sure that the person you’re talking to is actually who you think you are talking to because a lot of people can impersonate others. Access control, making sure that only the minimum necessary amount of rights are given to those who need it, nothing more, nothing less, so that no one would take advantage of those situations. And some other security policies as well. I’m not going to go into too much detail, but we have things such as non-repudiation. So I think understanding these cybersecurity fundamentals are going to be very important for us to understand how communication takes place on the internet as well. For example, I’m sure everybody’s familiar with the SSL TLS protocol that we use.
Anytime you see that HTTPS on the website, that basically means that your computer and the server are encrypting everything using the SSL TLS protocol. But SSL TLS protocol is not just one simple component or policy being implemented inside that protocol. Think of it like a suite of different concepts. So in order for you to understand how SSL and TLS works, you need to know how encryption works, you need to know how authentication works as well. So that’s why it’s going to be very helpful to be familiar with the cybersecurity fundamentals. And familiarizing yourselves with cybersecurity tools is another very important plus, if not a must. Tools such as Wireshark, which is a packet analysis tool or Nmap or Snort or Squid, Proxy, Server. So are all these alternatives, these different tools basically that we use in our daily lives. And I would definitely recommend being familiar with some of these tools.
And also there are a lot of cybersecurity certifications out there that you can get, such as CompTIA, a Security Plus or Spends Institute also has very reputable certificates. I also obtained one of those certificates for threat intelligence and incident response. And they will obtain a lot of useful up-to-date information with case studies and I would definitely recommend such certifications. And finally, probably as a bonus, maybe some familiarity with technologies like in order to understand how SQL injections work or how cross site scripting work. That would be something else that I would recommend for those who are interested in pursuing a career in cybersecurity.
Steve Bowcut:
Excellent. Great advice. Thank you so much. So let’s see if there are any industry trends that maybe you’ve identified, and specifically I’m thinking in terms of cybersecurity of course, but with machine learning, either from the defender’s perspective or from the threat actor’s perspective, you see any trends or do you have any vision of how machine learning is going to affect cybersecurity in those areas?
Ahmet Aksoy:
Of course. So as for the well, machine learning offers both new opportunities and also of course definitely presents some risks as well. As for the opportunities, I would definitely say I think one of the things is automated anomaly detection. So that’s going to be a plus because we’re going to be able to put a lot of the process in the hands of ML in terms of performing this anomaly detection incident classification. And we’re going… Based on our observation, based on the research so far, we see a lot higher accuracy in detecting these intrusion compared to humans because the computers are able to go down all the way down to the specific details of checking whether we get… There was an attack where the command and control server outside was triggering one of the hosts within the network by simply appending white space, meaning just one space at the end of one the header fields in HTTP protocol.
So typically, for example, I’m sure you know that when you cannot access a website, sometimes you get 404 not found. Or if you do access it successfully, you get 200 okay. So what they did was at the end of that, okay word, they just added a space and the virus that they had in the network was coded in a way to look for that space at the end of the word okay. And once it found it, then it was a go for that virus. So when you look at it as a human, when you have that open in front of you, it all looks good because it’s a space and you cannot see it, it’s not visible to you. So maybe you need to highlight it or go into the code of that page to see that space. So these are some little details that us humans can definitely miss, but computers wouldn’t.
So that would be one of the opportunities. And behavioral analysis is something else that is quite on the rise these days, detecting user behavior. Basically creating some norm out of it, some default behavior from users so that when we observe anything that deviates from that norm, it could be some kind of a trigger for us to know whether something fishy is going on over there or not. But definitely along with that, machine learning could bring some challenges as well. Data privacy concerns is one of the important ones. Because these models require quite a lot of data to work. And especially if you automate these fingerprinting techniques as we improve our approaches in detecting these incidents, still do attackers in order to hide or become more stealthy.
So that’s why as you go along, you’re going to keep feeding more and more data so that your model is up-to-date with the newest changes and tricks. That would be one more thing that I could probably mention about the machine learning is the challenge is over reliance on machine learning. Because at that point, since everything is going to be reduced down to numbers, then we’re not necessarily going to know what to specifically look for. It’s basically going to be like, well, we see we have this black box and it works. We have the data and then I mean it detects it, but we don’t know how. So that creates a lot kind of false sense of security.
Steve Bowcut:
Yeah, over-reliance is certainly a problem that in lots of different areas, I think technology tempts us to over-rely on its capabilities which can cause problems obviously. Let’s see if we can give our audience an idea from your perspective, what some of the most promising career paths in cybersecurity are? What could they end up doing as a job if they come to University of Central Missouri and get a degree in cybersecurity?
Ahmet Aksoy:
Great question. So I see a lot more people being interested in cybersecurity, which is a very great thing. So for now, for today, one of the things that I would recommend people looking into is incident responder positions, or in other words, cybersecurity analysts. Because regardless of how strong your system is, it’s not guaranteed that you’re not going to get an attack or something. So if you do in that case, it’s important for us to know how to fix that issue. So I have a class where I talk about this incident response process, but first of all, of course the first thing you would try to do is detect it, and if you can’t prevent it if possible, but sometimes it’s not. So in that case, you’re going to want to identify and then contain the situation so that you stop the spread as much as possible.
You stop the attack from spreading to your network as much as possible. And once you contain it, then we move on to the next step, which we call eradication, where we make sure that we get rid of all the artifacts that the attacker might have left behind in our network. So basically it’s like cleaning it out. And then finally recovering it back to the way it was so that we can continue to function, we can continue our business or our education, whatever it is that we’re doing. So that’s why these positions are quite important these days. Penetration testers or ethical hackers, in other words. Because a lot of people are going to want to know whether they have taken the necessary precautions in their system to be safe from the latest attacks. And they typically ask such experts to look into the system as, we call white hat hackers. And they’re going to look into the system and see if they find any vulnerabilities, and if they do, you would strengthen that aspect of your system or of your network more.
Security consultation would be another field. So here, people can consult about some security concepts whenever they have some question their concerns. And finally, I would probably say security architect. So somebody could say, “I’m building a new system, I want to make sure that it’s secure. What do you recommend? What are some of the tools that I should include in my system? What are some of the intrusion detection systems? What are some of the intrusion prevention systems?” So you would basically go ahead and create this entire architecture of security architecture for that institution and for the future. We’re still quite not there, but quantum computing security specialists.
The NIST, the National Institute of those Standards and Technology, I believe in December, 2023, so very recently announced the quantum computing cryptography. So there are a lot of research going on in that field as well. So we’re still quite not there. But in the future, this is, I believe, something that we’re going to start seeing more. IoT security specialists. We have IoT devices everywhere, so these days our toastmakers can paint Darth Vader by burning your toast, and we have all our watches connected to the internet, our cars have now Wi-Fi. So that’s why securing IoT devices is really important because typically these IoT devices do not have a lot of computation power and they intentionally try to eliminate that so that they can save battery, so they can let last longer. So in that case, the responsibility of the protection of those devices rely on outside systems, the IoT security specialists. And probably finally I would say blockchain security experts would be another area.
Steve Bowcut:
That’s interesting. And I kind of like to look at it from the perspective of some of these, and particularly like security analysts, the pen tester and maybe the IoT specialist, those special specialties, you can work in any vertical market you’re interested in. So everybody, every organizations, every educational institution, every large organization of any size is going to need people with that level of expertise. So it’s a broad field. You can work anywhere for anybody if you have those kinds of skills. Some of the other ones are probably narrow it down a little bit. I mean, if your interest is in nation state threat intelligence, you’ve probably limited the number of organizations that you could work for.
But I mean if that’s what you’re interested in, I would say go for it. But it is interesting to note that how broad the field has become, because everybody has a need. Every organization that has networks or builds something, medical, automotive, all of them, they have security specialists working for them. So that’s very cool. All right, let’s get a sense for the practical learning. So what does the University of Central Missouri do to build curriculum that when their graduates graduate, they’re going to know what they need to know to get a job? You get information from industry or how does that all work?
Ahmet Aksoy:
Great question. Thank you for that. So at UCM, University of Central Missouri, we keep our course content relevant to industry. We do our best to keep it relevant to industry because most of our graduates tend to go to industry. And we provide while doing that, as much hands-on experience as possible. In our classes, we expose them to cyber security tools. I mean, not necessarily just technical details, but also some practical details as well. And we have regular meetings, at least once a semester with industry board. We have an industry board where we have professionals from the industry visit our university and share their insights. They share their recommendations. We have business partners that, the partners that we are in close relationship and we also keep in touch with our graduates and sometimes they come back to the university, they share their job hunting experience. If they have any feedback or any recommendations, they make sure that they share that with our students.
So putting all this together, we make sure we shape our program, our curriculum accordingly. We also encourage our students to undertake some internships, some research projects with faculty. So I have 10, 12 students if not more this semester in my lab, working under my supervision and doing some research with me. So whenever there is a class project, I tend to tell my students, “Well, if you want, I can have you involved in my research and have that count towards your class project so that you would get a little bit more of that real life experience because you’re going to be working on something real here.” And it’s kind of like a win-win for them. So we try to encourage our students to do that if they wish to. And also, we work, as I mentioned, toward current industry recognized certifications. I myself received one in our cybersecurity department. We make sure that every faculty has such cybersecurity certifications so that they could shape their curriculum accordingly based on the industry needs so that we can better prepare our students for their future work.
Steve Bowcut:
Awesome, thank you. All right. A couple of three things that I wanted to get your advice for our audience on, and I’ll kind of combine them. Your research, those students that may be interested in doing research scholarships and internships, and maybe you have some specific examples of what they could do, or maybe you would generally just want to talk about the importance of those things, but research scholarships and internships. Do you have any advice you could give our audience?
Ahmet Aksoy:
So for the research, I would probably, my answer would quite co-align with what we discussed about the educational advice. I wouldn’t want to bore your audience with going over the same thing over, but what I mentioned about learning, programming, scripting, network fundamentals, operating systems. So those details would be what I would definitely recommend for research. Maybe something that we didn’t discuss could be creating network with professionals, attending conferences and some symposiums, getting to know people, what kind of work they do. This is going to be very inspiring. It’s going to broaden your perspective at how we look at things. Collaborating with peers, so interdisciplinary work is really important today these days. So collaborating with others is going to give you the ability to create such these interdisciplinary work. And participating in competitions and challenges is also going to give you that feeling as to I should know more or I should be able to solve this in a faster way.
I mean, those of you who might enjoy movies, there was a David Fincher movie on the social network talking about the Mark Zuckerberg’s or Facebook’s story. It’s a very nice movie. So he was hiring all these interns by having them compete with each other or whomever is able to solve the problem faster, and he would just prioritize those. So I would definitely recommend that people participate in such competitions. For a scholarship and internship opportunities, we do have such opportunities at our university. We award up to $50,000 in merit scholarship each year to our students. But also for those who are looking for opportunities outside of such universities, institutions, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, NIST has offers such grants, National Science Foundation, Department of Homeland Security also are some of the institutions that provide such scholarships and internship opportunities.
Steve Bowcut:
Okay, excellent. All right, so we’re getting close on time, but a couple more things that I wanted to ask you. One is, I think we’ve all observed that technology is more and more running up against ethical questions. How do you address that in cybersecurity education? Obviously, I can’t ask you to detail everything that you teach to your students, but is it a big deal? Is it incorporated in your curriculum? And how do you address that?
Ahmet Aksoy:
It definitely is. That’s an important point. So every time I give a real life example, anytime I talk about an incident or an attack or something, I make sure to point out what to pay attention to, what to respect. I make sure that I mention regardless of how apparent it might seem to people, I make sure to emphasize that because this is a very important concern and for my research as well. So we have the IRB, the institutional review board at our university, which basically looks into research ethics. We have a committee for that. So anytime I conduct a research, I make sure that I go through that process making sure that my research co-aligns with those standards. I’ve never had a paper where I did not do that. So that would be from the research perspective And from the teaching perspective. As I said, I try to include it in my curriculum as much as possible. And anytime I give a real life example, I make sure to emphasize what parts of that is right, what parts of that is wrong, because I think this is an important matter.
Steve Bowcut:
Excellent. Thank you. And I agree. All right, so to end things here, we’d like to get you to dust off your crystal ball and look into the future and maybe from two different perspectives. I’d be interested in learning more about where you see your research going, and also if you can offer anything to our audience about where you think cyber security is going to be going in the future. And maybe they’re one and the same. I don’t know.
Ahmet Aksoy:
You’re absolutely right. There are a lot of things that do go together in those two fields. So as for my research, I am planning to go towards a little bit more host profiling, making sure that we can detect malicious hosts based on their behavior while respecting the privacy part of things. Because up until this point, I’ve always worked with a metadata, not the actual data respecting users’ privacy. So I’m also interested in user fingerprinting because the research is heading a little bit towards that area because the only thing today that prevents your computer or your mobile phone from unauthorized access is simply maybe a passcode or your fingerprint or maybe some facial recognition.
However, once you have your phone unlocked, and then let’s say at that point somebody were to get a hold of it or maybe, which you shouldn’t do, so please don’t do what I’m about to say. But if you just left your computer unattended in your office and went to get some coffee or something, there’s nothing preventing anyone sitting in front of it and using your computer. So we don’t have such technology at the moment, but there’s a lot of research going on as to see whether we can detect user’s behavior.
Steve Bowcut:
Oh, very good.
Ahmet Aksoy:
So that as they use it, the computer becomes a little bit suspicious and say, “I don’t know you. You know what? I’m going to lock this computer. If you really are who you are, then you should know how to unlock it back.” I heard there’s a research going on where they’re trying to see if they can tell users a part by the way, they hold their phones. We have these accelerometers in our phone that recognize when you tilt them around. So they’re trying to see if they can find out whether it’s the correct user based on the way they hold their phone, which is quite challenging.
I had a colleague at UNR who was working on keyboard fingerprinting. So as you type, it turns out the amount of time that we spend pressing a key, the amount of time it takes for us to release our finger from a key, the amount of time it takes for you to switch your finger between keys is unique, just like a fingerprinting. So it’s not at a very high accuracy level. I think the [inaudible 00:41:04] was able to achieve this was like five, six years ago, 80% or something. But I think over the years, the accuracy has improved. So that’s typically where I see my research heading towards performing such user fingerprinting and host profiling.
And while doing that, I’m trying to explore the most efficient, most reliable ways of doing it. I just had a paper accepted in Italy where I compare different approaches to find the most suitable. And for the cybersecurity side of things, I would probably quite be… I would co-align with what I just said. Incident classification, malicious host classification, malicious user, maybe classification is some of the important topics and concepts that I see arising more and more in the future.
Steve Bowcut:
Perfect. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. We are out of time, but thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been fascinating conversation. I appreciate you sharing your expertise with us.
Ahmet Aksoy:
Thank you for inviting me, Steven. It was great to be here.
Steve Bowcut:
And a big thanks to our listeners for being with us. Please remember to subscribe and review if you find this podcast interesting. And join us next time for another episode of the Cybersecurity Guide Podcast.